Or in other words, focus on one thing at a time. (I can't think of an equivalent phrase that works for women as well as men, but NWWYP has countercultural cachet, so I'll stick with it.)
I've been due to make a new batch of V:TES decks for a while now, but haven't had any incentive to do so since I've not been playing V:TES. Some recent changes in my work schedule have made it so that I'll at least be playing occasionally, so it's time to actually figure out what to build. Unfortuntely, all of the ideas that I stormed up last go-round have been sitting unbuilt in my head for so long that I'm already bored with them. Aksinya Daclau's cover band takes on the Deep Song tap-and-bleed? Weenie !Salubri swarm with 30 copies of Hide the Heart? Weenie Obfuscate vote? !Ventrue bruise/bleed? Shattering Crescendo trophies? (Okay, I did build and play that one once, but it was a weird game and the deck needed so much work that it was basically still a first draft.) All bored with them already, without ever having played them, due to having spent too much time thinking about them during slow periods at work.
But then a couple of weeks ago, Juggernaut made a statement on the newsgroup that gunless weenie Celerity is a tournament-viable deck, and I pointed out to him that I'd never heard or seen such and that what he was saying sounded dumb to me. Not wanting to be a total jerk and call him out on something without checking it out for myself, I drafted a decklist of exactly what he was talking about, though I haven't played since then. But the process of drafting that deck got me thinking.
I haven't played a lot of monodiscipline decks. While I can understand the allure of having a deck that knows what it wants to do and does it very well at the expense of allowing itself broader options, I'm not often interested in playing such a deck for any longer than it takes me to learn how it works. And since those decks are generally pretty simple in terms of what they do, that's often just one or two plays. But there are a lot of disciplines out there, and a lot of them don't get much in the way of spotlight time all by their lonesomes. So what I'm going to do is put on my best Uncle George impression and act like a sleazy producer who's giving these young hopefuls their shot at fame. I don't expect much out of them, but then that's the fun of surprises, right?
I'm just going to skip right over the fancy bloodlines disciplines, as their crypt options aren't usually good enough to allow the weeniefication that's necessary for just about any monodiscipline deck to have a hope of functionality. As for the rest, I'll go through the list of disciplines and consider which are viable candidates for this particular experiment.
Yes
Abombwe: This is kind of a fancy bloodlines discipline, so it might seem like I'm already violating the rules that I just set out for myself three seconds ago, but since it's got a discipline card that can be used to give it out (one which is a trifle, no less), I'll give it a go. It's toolboxy enough that I'm not immediately sure what route I'll take with the deck. Due to the restriction on who can learn it, the crypt will probably end up largely laibon, which gives me access to more funky tricks.
Celerity: See the introduction above. I might even make two of these, the crappy rush one and another try at weenie !Brujah breed/boom, which by random chance doesn't use any disciplines other than Celerity.
Dominate: I've tried weenie DBR (which also happens to be mono-Dominate) before, but found that it really wasn't to my liking. Too much need to aggressively attack people cross-table in the early game, which doesn't suit my playstyle or my wish for the people I'm playing with to have fun. Aim&Chain has been looking enticing to me for a minute now, though, as has trying out something silly with Zip Guns and Suppressing Fire, so that seems like it could all come together here.
Protean: For such a toolboxy discipline, it still seems like making a working deck using just Protean will be nigh-impossible. Hark! A challenge! The 1/2 crypt for this is very solid for the weenie angle, so that's a good starting place.
No
Animalism: I've already done this one, several different times actually, which is enough to disqualify it. For what it's worth, I also found it less interesting to play than !Nosferatu, Ahrimanes, or Gangrel/!Gangrel, any of which can do all the same stuff that weenie Animalism can but also adds spice and options on top of that basic build.
Auspex: Never played it, but it's generally so one-dimensional that I already know how it would play. It's certainly a discipline I like and play a lot of, but I've got no desire to see what happens when it goes solo, especially since weenie Auspex is already an established tournament-viable deck archetype.
Fortitude: See Auspex.
Obfuscate: I like stealth, but I can't think of anything not boring to do with it if it's not coupled with some other discipline. I could make a deck with Heidelburgable bleed permanents and use lots of Night Moves and Powerbase: Zurich! Just writing that sentence had me reaching for a blanket and pillow, though, let alone building the deck or playing it.
Potence: See Auspex, minus the part about me playing it a lot.
Presence: Already played it quite a bit, and also see Auspex.
Maybe
Chimerstry: Hmm. Seems like it might be fun, but every time I've made a Ravnos deck I couldn't bear to play it more than once. I'm not sure what that's about, given that individual Ravnos and Chimerstry cards certainly have the capacity to get me excited to play them, and Ravnos have so many good clan cards that it seems like I ought to keep a deck built just to use them. I'd been wanting to make an Edged Illusion deck for a long time, but that desire evaporated once Shattering Crescendo was printed, and mono-Chimerstry doesn't offer much other than stealth, light bleed, and "haha your guys can't untap" tech. I've long thought that David Cherryholmes' Red Herring deck looked interesting, so maybe I'll give that a shot. Even if I don't, I should probably buckle down and try to do something with that giant pile of Chimerstry cards I've had laying around for so long.
Dementation: Pretty unlikely. I've got zero desire to play the "Jackie taps to attempt Kindred Spirits, add Confusion, repeat" weenie Dementation bleed deck that would be the most obvious choice. And while there are a lot of amusingly janky Dementation actions that mess with other peoples' minions, they're all removable by an action which Dementation weenies are going to be neither willing nor able to block. I've considered using a bunch of Passions to make a Dementation tap-and-bleed deck, but that turns out to just be weenie Presence without access to S:CE, so no thanks.
Necromancy: This discipline has a few good cards, a few more middling ones, and then quite a bit of garbage. What's more, the good and okay stuff doesn't really mesh very well - how do I work Divine Sign, Puppeteer and Call of the Hungry Dead into the same deck? The only mono-Necromancy deck I've seen was one in Ben Peal's series of amazingly annoying "get one million permanents so that no one sitting near me can play and then bleed for one a lot" decks, but I've been meaning to do something with Baleful Doll and Jar the Soul for a long time, and I need to build something to give Sennadurek a home while I'm still working out what's the best deck for her to be in.
Obtenebration: See Obfuscate. The thing to do would be Shadow Twins, but I've played that deck already and it was just as dull as Cryptic Mission, surprise surprise. There are enough combat options and crappy intercept cards for Obtenebration that an intercept/combat thing might be unexpected and funny, but it sounds bad enough that this is close to the bottom of the list of potentials.
Quietus: I've tried this before, with a really bad Baal's Bloody Talons deck that I made just to have an excuse to make terrible jokes about Sticks and Baal's, but maybe I'll try something that's a little less juevenile. Some kind of bleed/vote thing using the good Assamite clan cards but eschewing their one good discipline and instead using Quietus might be the way to go here.
Serpentis: Serpentis has one very good card, a small number of decent ones, and then a whole swath of complete crap. Part of the point of this exercise is certainly to dust off some crappy cards that wouldn't normally see play, but so many of the low-end Serpentis cards are so cost-intensive and situational and yet still have no appreciable effect on the game that they've gone beyond bad to become intimidatingly bad. These cards are the kids hanging out in the back of shop class and sticking safety pins in their forearms just because they're bored, the kind of cards that'll say, "you knew I was a snake when you picked me up" as you lose while playing them. I'm not even talking about the truly unplayable cards from the drug-addled WotC days of Ancient Hearts, either, but some of the more recent stuff. I don't think I've got the werewithal to walk this path.
Thaumaturgy: I've done the Cryptic Mission thing and it made me yawn. That was a while ago, though, and Thaumaturgy has gotten a lot of interesting tricks in the interim. It's got even more cards than it deserves to since so many of the Visceratika outferiors are Thaumaturgy. Combined with enough copies of Spirit Summoning Chamber to get what I want when I think it'll have the most humor impact, I think this might be leading the pack of the maybes.
Vicissitude: Seems like it would make for a good monodiscipline deck, since it offers a fair number of different effcts. Unfortunately, Vicissitude is one of those disciplines which barely has any effect on the game at the basic level, the crypt for weenie Vicissitude isn't very good, and I'm already signed up to build what will probably turn out to be two "aggpoke with light bleed elements" decks (Abombwe and Protean), so I'm really not sure that a third is going to be any better or more interesting than those. The other obvious route to take would be a War Ghoul deck, but it's already an established tournament deck, etc.
I'll be going through the process of making these decks in future posts, or if I'm feeling lazy I'll at least post the decklists and some explanation of how I arrived at the decisions to build them the way I did. Stay tuned.
Gulf Coast Roast – Vidor
1 week ago
Mono Serpentis has good cards to knock blood off guys(tongue of the serpent, rushing mummies) and steal them(form of corruption, temptation). It's a good excuse to use the path!
ReplyDeleteWhere I play, paths don't generally last more than a turn, unless something else weird is going on in a game. And the Snakies aren't really capable of defending it...
ReplyDeleteI don't think you should abandon the bloodline disciplines so fast. Spiritus could make for an interesting mono deck in that it's like Auspex but also gives stealth and combat ends. Blessing of the Beast would be very powerful in a deck like that.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the new Blood Brothers could support a mono Sanguinus deck based on bloat, bleed and equipment.
Part of me choosing not to mess with the bloodlines disciplines is that I'm unlikely to be playing more than one or two games of V:TES a month at this point in my life, so I needed to restrict my list somewhat. Since most of the bloodlines disciplines aren't that interesting to me on their own, and have the crypt issue I mentioned above, they got the axe first. But if you think there's potential there, by all means, build some decks and play. Start a blog and discuss the results! We can always use more V:TESers in the blogspace.
ReplyDeleteIs there a main goal? Seems like about three goals, which will conflict.
ReplyDelete#1 Building decks - All those ideas you are bored of without playing, I get that. I write out lots of decks I never build. What I find, though, is that the secret is to just build them and stop thinking too hard about it. The perfect deck has no cards. I had a lot of fun playing two decks I just kind of threw together.
#2 Interesting decks - So far, you've chosen Celerity, Potence, and Dominate as monodiscipline decks. That's about as boring as is possible in the game. Having a challenge in which to try something new and then not doing things that would be new, like Nec or Obt intercept/combat or whatever seems to defeat the challenge.
#3 Deck strength - There's a theme in here of building decks that work. But, then, I thought the point was to find out whether things work. Nevermind that worrying overmuch about deck strength doesn't serve much purpose.
The direction seems odd. Rather than being about a challenge to build something different and not overly complicated, the view seems to be more about building something that you are already interested in building. The exercise might be a lot more fun if you chose a discipline you didn't think would work and find ways to try to make it work, or even choose a discipline you know that works, like Auspex, and build something completely different, like a rush bleed deck with Ancestor's Insight and Nose of the Hound.
This exercise, btw, is typical of the ones I try to come up with to get inspired to build more decks. What I think I'm realizing is that overthinking deckbuilding means building fewer decks. Slapped together nonsense is often quite enjoyable. After all, I've won every game I ever played with Striga decks.
Curevei: Insightful comments, as always. Thanks for stopping by.
ReplyDeleteThe goal is really just to build monodiscipline decks, as I realized when I sat down to build the Celerity one that I hadn't made very many of them in my deckbuilding career. Mono-[whatever] is interesting enough to me as a limitation that I'm okay with using otherwise uninteresting disciplines.
While I understand what you're saying about the fun of trying stuff out to see what works, I can't really swing that at this point. I don't play enough, and usually have to invest a fairly hefty amount of time driving to a game, and my playgroup has a tendency to love Control, so building decks that I'm pretty sure won't work is just a recipe for grumpiness on my part. If I had a local group that met more frequently, and wasn't so obsessed with winning via preventing other people from playing cards, I'd totally take your advice and just throw together some jank and see what came of that.